It takes a truly exceptional set of circumstances for a rightwinger to lose the support of the Critic, UnHerd, the Times, the Spectator (twice) and even GB News. But as those who read my last piece for the Nerve will note, MattGPT, aka Dr Matthew Goodwin, has found himself in a truly exceptional set of circumstances.
After I exposed a number of issues in his new “book” – Suicide of a Nation, a 204-page attempt at diagnosing why the UK is in a mess, and how he thinks it can be solved – on X, he challenged me to a debate on GB News, the channel on which he’s employed. Now, I am no stranger to the channel – I’m a firm believer that one of the ways we should take on the right is by confronting their views coherently, on their own outlets, and I’ve even been on Goodwin’s own show several times – so the idea of beating him on his own patch was too delicious to let go. After a back-and-forth with a producer, it was agreed that we would come face to face on the show Dewbs & Co, with the GB News presenter and former Conservative MP Miriam Cates acting as moderator.
After readying my notes, I donned my suit and tie, a rarity for me, and made my way to the studios. I arrived early, to survey the terrain, and had an incredible amount of quiet whispers of support from employees of the channel. Mick Booker, the editorial director, came over and half-jokingly asked me to “keep it clean”.
When I stepped into the studio itself, Goodwin was already sitting there on the far side of the debate desk, his head glued to his phone. I strode across to him, and offered my hand – I suppose it was my attempt at a gladiatorial salute. He took a beat before looking up, grunted and then gave me an extremely limp handshake. I took my seat, and made small talk with Miriam before we went live. What followed is now on the public record, and I would encourage everyone to watch the full 30 minutes of the debate.
One thing that didn’t make it into the broadcast is that, in the breaks between segments, Goodwin completely ignored me and Miriam. We made polite small talk and Goodwin took refuge in the company of his phone screen. Maybe he was engaging in a back-and-forth with ChatGPT for support.
One of the strangest things about the evening was the fact that the debate was only the first half of the show. Then we had to spend 30 minutes speaking about the war in Iran and Angela Rayner’s new podcast episode with Michael Gove. In the last segment you get to have a drink – I chose a Moretti lager, and Goodwin, naturally, chose a glass of prosecco, which he did not touch. I suppose there was no reason to celebrate.
From left: Matt Goodwin, Miriam Cates and Andy Twelves in the GB News studio
The next day, the ‘Saturday Five’ on GB News named his performance one of their ‘triggered tantrums’ of the week
As soon as the show finished, Goodwin left the studio without saying a word to me or Miriam, spoke briefly to the editorial director, and then attempted to exit the building. Only his GB News pass doesn’t work outside the Westminster studio, where he normally records his show. As the security guard let him out, I thanked the producers for letting the debate happen on their channel, thanked Miriam for the top-tier job she did of moderating, and then made my way over to the watch party that fellow commentator and LabourList columnist Stella Tsantekidou had organised at the Loose Box bar in Westminster.
As I nursed a well-earned hangover the next morning, I caught up on the aftermath – and the end of Goodwin’s credibility. Sam Leith in the Spectator dubbed him “a national laughing stock”, and my exploits had managed to secure support from the left (Mehdi Hasan and Zoe Gardner) to the right (Dan Wootton) and even the hard right (Rupert Lowe MP). The evening after the debate, The Saturday Five show on GB News designated Goodwin’s performance as one of their “triggered tantrums” of the week.
Goodwin has not taken the fallout from the debate well, sending out the same boring marketing-literature tweets about how this book will save the UK, and the elites don’t want you to read it. He has at least conceded that a Sir Roger Scruton quote I criticised him about is incorrect – writing in the Spectator that “having checked my notes, this is clearly a misquote from Scruton’s The Need for Nations” – and admitted that he “got it wrong”. I look forward to the same confessions about his misquoting of James Burnham, Hayek, Livy, Cicero, Walker Connor, and all the rest. In the same piece, Goodwin labelled me a “largely unknown leftwing activist”. Well, this largely unknown activist is very pleased to have exposed the falsehoods and fabrications in your anti-British slop, and hopes it will serve as a cautionary tale for the next grifter..
Andy Twelves is a political writer and broadcaster, and fellow of CampaignLab and Newspeak House, the London College of Political Technology.